Curse

Nerel · Jul 17, 2009, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by esthetic

My post proposed the following argument. If ANet sold you additional storage, extra character slot, a skill unlock pack or a face lift for real money, $9.99, but they fail to deliver would this be considered breach and ANet liable? Extra, slots, storage or change in appearance or skill available is just "Virtual Goods"

Okies, here it is... spelled out using small words so it will be easy to follow.

When you PURCHASE an additional feature for your game, such as the additional character slot, skill unlock pack or face lift... you are entering into an AGREEMENT with ArenaNet, ArenaNet will give you the SERVICE requested in exchange for your money.

ArenaNet DIDN'T sell the XTH, I NEVER saw them selling XTH accounts, and you NEVER purchased access to the XTH, it was NEVER a separate feature that you PURCHASED. You purchased full featured GAME ACCOUNTS that gave you access to the GAME, a game that WILL change, that HAS changed before and who's contents is completely under ArenaNet's control.

Quote:

Originally Posted by esthetic

Many on this site, as I, have equated ANet marketing XTH Rewards to existing account holders as incentive to buy additional accounts a vehicle to sell ingame gold "Virtual Goods" for real money.

The fact they used this indirect method does not change the fact that the person who bought the addtional account was induced to buy the account, for XTH rewards = ZKeys = "in game gold" = "Virtual Goods".

Which doesn't change the fact that you PURCHASED a GAME account, and you still have a GAME account. You NEVER paid for XTH access, ArenaNet NEVER entered into an agreement with you that would guarantee continued access.

Your argument is about as intelligent as me DEMANDING a refund on my GW purchase because ArenaNet nerfed a skill that I liked. Ursan, for example, it was a long standing feature of the EotN expansion, many people equated those over powered skills as the only reason to buy EotN and after I purchased EotN they killed my Grrr Bear... No bear? No fair.... they ripped me off QQ.

No they RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing didn't, They sold me the GAME, not the skill, not access to XTH not RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing anything but access to the GAME, a game that they can CHANGE.

When they SELL access to XTH, then you can DEMAND access to it.

They don't. Yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by esthetic

The argument that the marketing of by ANet and purchase by an existing account holder of addtional accounts is a RMT for "virtual goods" is further supported by the fact that the additional account has no other value to the person who bought the account but the "Virtual Good" of "in game gold" that was offered by ANet. And that ANet changed the EULA to allow a person to own more than one account.

Umm, did people purchase multiple accounts before the XTH? Of course they did. Do people use the multiple accounts for such purposes as additional storage? Of course they do. Your argument just failed, clearly additional accounts HAVE value to people beyond just the XTH, considering we've been buying them since BEFORE the XTH. I note you didn't mention WHEN the EULA was changed... was it at the same time as the XTH was introduced? Years before the XTH was introduced? Yeah... you need to provide a connection there if you want to pretend it helps your non-argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by esthetic

I think this though is a moot point. ANet will not take down XTH for one HUGE economic reason. By conservative estimate taken from the guru poll, over half of the accounts sold were additional accounts. ANet will not want to discourage this behaviour of purchasing additional accounts, HALF OF THE ACCOUNTS SOLD were additional accounts. To take out XTH would decrease the incentive to purchase addtional accounts, and if GW2 will be of similar structure, people will not have an incentive to buy multiple copies of GW2.

I hate to break it to you... that Poll represents what percentage of the player base? One percent? Two percent?

Did that poll include ONLY ACCOUNTS purchased explicitly by players for the purpose of profitting from the XTH? Or just people with multiple accounts? People who already had multiple accounts before the XTH? People who acquired accounts from friends leaving the game?

Uh huh... yep.

I doubt they will remove the XTH. I do hope they fix and modify it.

But it is their RIGHT to do whatever the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO they want with it, and all the forum whining in the world won't take away their legal right to do so.

ArenaNet NEVER sold you the XTH, NEVER charged you for access to it, NEVER entered into any agreement that would guarantee your continued access to it. The sold you a GAME account. Period.

esthetic · Jul 17, 2009, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Nerel, long post for a silly non issue.

Did ANet encourage purchase of additional accounts by offering incentives for these additional accounts? Did People buy additional accounts to realize said incentives? Did ANet benefit from their actions? Did ANet take away these incentives? YES, YES, YES(temporarily) That is it in a nutshell. The rest is just insubstantial filler.

Im not going to be a little smart @ss at someone with a differing opinion. You have the right to your opinion as well as I. I am merely expressing my take on things and trying to communicate it to you and others reading this. I would like to you to understand my point of view not ridicule you for having a differing opinion.

Ok one last thing, you make comparisons about ursan, and i will try to analyse it from my point of view. Say ANet makes Ursan Farming viable again if you buy an additional account, and they knowingly market this, you buy the account and give ANet real money. Then they take feature away. Is that fair? You still have the account tho. and you didnt buy ursan skills, its only part of the game.

And what good is the fourth or sixth account if not for the XTH reward system? Ya, you still have the account but its not transferable so it is worthlessm why else would you buy the additional account?

Nerel · Jul 17, 2009, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by esthetic

Nerel, long post for a silly non issue.

Did ANet encourage purchase of additional accounts by offering incentives for these additional accounts? Did People buy additional accounts to realize said incentives? Did ANet benefit from their actions? Did ANet take away these incentives? YES, YES, YES(temporarily) That is it in a nutshell. The rest is just insubstantial filler.

Im not going to be a little smart @ss at someone with a differing opinion. You have the right to your opinion as well as I. I am merely expressing my take on things and trying to communicate it to you and others reading this. I would like to you to understand my point of view not ridicule you for having a differing opinion.

Ok one last thing, you make comparisons about ursan, and i will try to analyse it from my point of view. Say ANet makes Ursan Farming viable again if you buy an additional account, and they knowingly market this, you buy the account and give ANet real money. Then they take feature away. Is that fair? You still have the account tho. and you didnt buy ursan skills, its only part of the game.

And what good is the fourth or sixth account if not for the XTH reward system? Ya, you still have the account but its not transferable so it is worthlessm why else would you buy the additional account?

Look, just because you've found a way to make more money by utilizing additional accounts doesn't prove it was an incentive offered by ArenaNet for the purpose of selling more accounts, seriously you would need to actually provide some evidence beyond the merely circumstantial scuttlebutt of forum users. ArenaNet didn't MARKET the XTH at all, as far as I am aware, it was a feature of the game that got the same amount of fanfare from them as any other similar feature, the fact that it could be used to amass a fortune was a creation of the forum dwellers, the hype to buy cheap accounts and reap the profits was, again, created by forum users looking to get rich...

As for the Ursan issue, if ArenaNet suddenly buffed the Ursan to uberpower status, and then later nerfed it again, no big deal... really, I mean in terms of game balance it would be a stupid move to buff that monstrosity, but it is their game. And they have never marketed the game on a single skill or feature, so it's a moot point.

ArenaNet adds features to the game somewhat regularly, such as the Zaishen Menagerie, it never sells games based on a single feature, it doesn't market these features... the fact that you or others choose to buy a GAME ACCOUNT based solely on a single feature is really your own fault. Take responsibility for your own decisions, don't blame ArenaNet for tempting you...

As for the value of having 4+ accounts before the XTH was introduced? Really, I have no idea, perhaps you could ask all those people who DID have multiple accounts before the XTH was introduced. That doesn't change the fact that people who got greedy and purchased bucket loads of accounts just to take advantage of the XTH made a decision knowing full well that this is an online game, who's features and mechanics CAN and DO change regularly. The risk was always there, the feature that THEY wanted to abuse was not in anyway MARKETED, SOLD or GUARANTEED. It was just another minor feature of a game they hoped to exploit. Oops.

Do you have the right to be annoyed if the XTH goes away (and it won't)? sure, if you want to be annoyed.

Should you get angry for wasting all that money on accounts that have little value to you now? Yeah, I guess so, if you want to be angry at YOURSELF.

Do you have any grounds to take legal action against ArenaNet if they remove or alter the functionality of the XTH? No, none whatsoever.

Enix · Jul 17, 2009, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Companies are always focused on making profits. That is called capitalism.

If they wanted to make great games that people would wait years for and be blown away, they'd probably be called Valve.

pumpkin pie · Jul 17, 2009, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Stop looking at what others have and be happy with what you have.

fenix · Jul 17, 2009, 03:12 AM // 03:12

If you bought accounts JUST for XTH, then it's your own fault if they remove it. ANet didn't offer it up as a selling point. You bought the accounts to try to profit. There's no part of the agreement or even the documentation that says that XTH is guaranteed, and that it's a reason to buy.

It was a bonus feature for players. If it gets removed, then that's up to ANet, but there's NO reason why they can't.

Nerel · Jul 17, 2009, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

If you bought accounts JUST for XTH, then it's your own fault if they remove it. ANet didn't offer it up as a selling point. You bought the accounts to try to profit. There's no part of the agreement or even the documentation that says that XTH is guaranteed, and that it's a reason to buy.

It was a bonus feature for players. If it gets removed, then that's up to ANet, but there's NO reason why they can't.

Succinct and to the point, but some people just don't get it.

esthetic · Jul 17, 2009, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

If you bought accounts JUST for XTH, then it's your own fault if they remove it. ANet didn't offer it up as a selling point. You bought the accounts to try to profit. There's no part of the agreement or even the documentation that says that XTH is guaranteed, and that it's a reason to buy.

It was a bonus feature for players. If it gets removed, then that's up to ANet, but there's NO reason why they can't.

So, its the fault of the people who bought the accounts they removed the XTH? And how do you support your argument that ANet didn't use XTH as a selling point? I mean everything they do is geared towards selling the game, is it not? People bought the additional accounts for in game goods. YES!! And yes, they do not guaranty it will be forever, and I dont think anyone is asking them to fulfill a guaranty. XTH was a selling point advertised in game and their website, and they want it fulfilled. Every feature in the game is a reason to buy the game, bonus or not, I mean what is the definition a "Bonus" and "Not Bonus" feature and what is the difference?

Regardless of this, the XTH predictions and purchase of additional accounts by existing account holders is a good thing for all! More money to ANet is a good thing, we all as players in the game benefit from. People buying accounts from ANet for in game gold may be not to your taste, but it is better then them buying in game gold from third party gold farmers. It is a lesser of two evils. And finally, why are people concerned with how other people decide to spend their money or play the game?

Assasin Foxx · Jul 17, 2009, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by esthetic

So, its the fault of the people who bought the accounts they removed the XTH? And how do you support your argument that ANet didn't use XTH as a selling point? I mean everything they do is geared towards selling the game, is it not? People bought the additional accounts for in game goods. YES!! And yes, they do not guaranty it will be forever, and I dont think anyone is asking them to fulfill a guaranty. XTH was a selling point advertised in game and their website, and they want fulfilled. Every feature in the game is a reason to buy the game, bonus or not, I mean what is the definition a "Bonus" and "Not Bonus" feature and what is the difference?

Regardless of this, the XTH predictions and purchase of additional accounts by existing account holders is a good thing for all! More money to ANet is a good thing, we all as players in the game benefit from. People buying accounts from ANet for in game gold may be not to your taste, but it is better then them buying in game gold from third party gold farmers. And finally, why are people concerned with how other people decide to spend their money or play the game?

Yep
Anet might have used the XTH to sell more accounts.
Some people are in love with this game and will do anything to get more gold, ecto, etc.
So free money every month = more money for anet.

Most people with multi accounts only have say 1 campaign.
PS: By the time you finished posting all this you could have farmed 100e.

Perkunas · Jul 17, 2009, 11:36 PM // 23:36

I thought XTH was to introduce more pve people to pvp, or was it to increase interest in pvp? Instead, it turned out being "abused" by a few. Maybe the system couldn't handle the "abuse", resulting in it being removed until it can be fixed. Like "abused" skills, builds, whatever, it could be under the nerf hammer right now. They (Anet) may or may not return it to the game. Either way, won't matter to me.

Age · Jul 17, 2009, 11:46 PM // 23:46

I would say as many as you can max out on your credit card.

Akuma · Jul 17, 2009, 11:52 PM // 23:52

i have one account and i KNOW i'm richer than most of gw, you just have to not suck at life

esthetic · Jul 18, 2009, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perkunas

I thought XTH was to introduce more pve people to pvp, or was it to increase interest in pvp? Instead, it turned out being "abused" by a few. Maybe the system couldn't handle the "abuse", resulting in it being removed until it can be fixed. Like "abused" skills, builds, whatever, it could be under the nerf hammer right now. They (Anet) may or may not return it to the game. Either way, won't matter to me.

Hmm, so you think ANet, Inc., introduced XTH reward pts because they wanted more people to be interested in PvP because, PvP is cool? or PvP sells copies of the game to new and existing players? I don't I think they did it to sell more accounts and more ingame stuff like unlock packs and what not.

Xanthe Dashka · Jul 18, 2009, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Yes, the more accounts you have the richer you could be...

But if Anet decides to keep the XTH closed... LOL, then they farmed you with an overpowered tactic!

Daesu · Jul 18, 2009, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanthe Dashka

But if Anet decides to keep the XTH closed... LOL, then they farmed you with an overpowered tactic!

XTH was closed due to a technical glitch which we all witnessed. ANet has never announced that they have decided to get rid of XTH forever. But they have been putting the XTH off for higher priority tasks. What higher priority tasks are there besides fixing the XTH? Is GW2 in a critical stage about to be released? Your guess is as good as mine.

Bob Slydell · Jul 19, 2009, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

We need some Obama style justice around here and only make it so people have 1 account... 2 accounts max if they can prove a need. Just my opinon.

Why? In the end its you buying accounts from anet and the money getting back to arenanet from the sales. They don't care if a million people buy one account each or one person buy a million accounts. They make money which is all they should really worry about to strive.

Island Guardian · Jul 19, 2009, 02:49 AM // 02:49

when a farm is good, Anet Nerfs it. When drops get good Anet nerfs it
All this is, is nerfing a method of getting money to keep people in the game longer, till gw2, so they make more $$.

Xanthe Dashka · Jul 19, 2009, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

XTH was closed due to a technical glitch which we all witnessed. ANet has never announced that they have decided to get rid of XTH forever. But they have been putting the XTH off for higher priority tasks. What higher priority tasks are there besides fixing the XTH? Is GW2 in a critical stage about to be released? Your guess is as good as mine.

I'm sorry?

ANYTHING should have higher priority compared to the XTH.

Like, new maps for PvE and PvP. Balance updates that are tested. Maybe some new weapon skins. Or maybe the cancelled chapter.

And you mention GW2. I haven't seen a screen or video yet. It's vaporware that is most likely being released during the second half of 2010 or early 2011.

Daesu · Jul 19, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanthe Dashka

Like, new maps for PvE and PvP. Balance updates that are tested. Maybe some new weapon skins. Or maybe the cancelled chapter.

Oh yeah like that's going to happen. When was the last time new maps were introduced outside of a campaign?

Since ANet has lead many players to go out and buy new accounts through their advertising for XTH, they are obliged to deliver. Otherwise, they would have misled their customers for profits. Even now, some people are buying new accounts to prepare for XTH to be back up.

Shadowspawn X · Jul 19, 2009, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

Stop looking at what others have and be happy with what you have.

Very nice advice. However, is it ok to analyze how the behavior of others effect the game environment in which we all co-exist? I don't think its as much a emotional issue as an discussion about the social and economical impact that certain behavior has on the game.